Speaker: 00:00:00

Now that your business is generating

revenue, specifically, now that your

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: 00:00:04

membership or your subscription is

generating revenue, does it make

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more sense to put your resources

into continuing to generate

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: 00:00:11

new leads over and over again?

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Or does it make more sense to putting

them into nurturing your current

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clients or your current members?

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And while this is more about

memberships and subscriptions, I'm

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gonna try to make this relevant in

other ways as well, um, to just talk

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more about the concept of retention.

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But you know, really there's no right

or wrong answer to that question.

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Like, does it make more sense to

prioritize top of funnel versus retention?

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But I think that there's a misconception

that the way to make more money is only

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to focus on generating more new leads.

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If you want to make more sales, you

do need more leads, but that's not

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always the way to make more money

in the long run or just the only way

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to make more money in the long run.

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So this is essentially a question that,

that I was asked by someone named Jordan.

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I pulled this from an

old message that I got.

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It was a, it was a little ways back, but

I wanted to answer it here in longer form.

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I've, this is, this is probably the last

episode, I hope it's the last episode that

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I do where it's just like I'm going and

searching for questions that I've had.

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In the past or whatever, because

I've set up a voice note box where

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you can ask me a question directly,

like you just hit record in your

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browser and you can ask me a question.

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I've got a couple that are lined up, so

I'm gonna start, I'm gonna start, um,

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putting those episodes out next, but.

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Um, this one is, this was just like

a text based question, so I'm just

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gonna read what the question was.

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I also want to preface as much as I try

to make things relevant for any business

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owner based on the question being asked,

I don't know enough about e-comm to

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know how to make this fully relatable.

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So, if you have a product based

business, I, I don't know how much

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you're gonna get outta this one.

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Like, I just want to

be upfront on that one.

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Um, but if you have or want

to offer subscription boxes, I

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think this may be insightful.

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I'm just also not gonna pretend

to tell you like, here's a lateral

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tactic that is product based.

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There's one place where I think I have

one lateral tactic, but I just, you

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know, I wanna be upfront with you.

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I don't wanna, I don't want,

want anybody to waste their time.

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So that said, let's get to it.

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So the question that I got from Jordan,

I am gonna read, just read this verbatim.

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So I run a subscription based wellness

platform that just passed $350,000

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in annual revenue, and most of that

growth came from social content.

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The thing is, it feels, uh, it feels

like people sign up and then disappear

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and are gone after a few months.

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Right now I'm stuck between pushing

harder on acquiring new members since I

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know how to do that pretty well, versus

really digging into fixing retention and

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customer experience, which feels slower.

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And honestly, I'm not excited to do it.

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I want to scale fast, and

I know that I can, but I'm

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worried I'll just keep pouring.

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People into a leaky bucket.

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So my question really is that at

this stage of my business, should

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I prioritize fueling, um, fueling

more leads to keep revenue climbing?

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Or should I slow down and focus

on retention, even if it means

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like a short term plateau?

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So, okay.

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Okay, Jordan, so here's.

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First of all, I think that

this is really normal.

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So like I talk about where your

bottlenecks tend to happen, they tend

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to be, they look different depending on

the type of model that you're in, but

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they tend to be around a hundred thousand

dollars per year, give or take around

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$300,000 a year, give or take around

a million dollars a year, give or take

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around $3 million a year, give or take.

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And like, without getting into all

the reasons why and what happens in

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Anaan, it's just, it's really normal.

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So, um, especially for information

based businesses, that bottleneck

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very often happens around 300,000.

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So being at 350,000 a year.

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That's normal.

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And let's say, let's talk about

that in terms of $30,000 a month.

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So that be $30,000 a month would

be 360 per year in, in annual

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revenue, but like close enough.

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So let's say you're doing

about $30,000 a month.

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So a lot of people in this type of model

can do 30, 30 grand a month while running

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a really lean business, which sounds

delightful, but it's also where you start.

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To feel like things are breaking.

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Um, like can you serve people well enough?

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Are all of your members

getting enough attention, et

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cetera, et cetera, et cetera.

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This particularly, this particular

delivery bottleneck happens

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earlier on for someone who's

in a service provider business.

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So.

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Service providers tend to have this

delivery bottleneck specifically more

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around the 80 to $150,000 a year mark.

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But the $300,000 a year bottle mark or

bottleneck rather, is, um, typically for

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a service provider is gonna be more around

like you need to bring in an operations,

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an operations manager for a small agency.

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I feel like I'm just like

not speaking English today,

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making a lot of word mistakes.

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So, okay.

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So all that said.

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Here are the things that I would've

liked to have known before starting

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this because they would make a

difference in how I would answer this.

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So one, have they always fallen

off after a couple of months,

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or is this a recent thing?

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The reason I ask that is because if

it's a new thing, if you have been,

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if you have been getting to a place.

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If you are in a place rather,

let me start that sentence again.

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If you are in a place where up until now

you have retained clients pretty well,

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like your clients typically resign with

you, your clients continue on their

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membership, you maybe have a six month

coaching program and a lot of people

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resign for the alumni package or whatever

that might be specifically for you.

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If that's typically happened and

now all of a sudden when you've

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reached this point, now they're

not, they're not doing that anymore.

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I'm going to ask you what about

your delivery has shifted?

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Because usually this is not just

like, wow, something out of the clear

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blue sky happened and all of a sudden

something, something has changed.

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It's typically going to be more

like you have become stretched to a

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place where people are not feeling.

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The love from you the

way that they used to.

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They're not feeling as seen or

heard or valued or appreciated,

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which those are all the things that

we want our people to feel, right?

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So in like in a membership scenario,

it's possible that because you've

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gotten such an influx of members.

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That you used to be giving people more

time and attention than you're able

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to now, and you can't do that anymore.

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So it's possible that the fix

for this problem is simply

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bringing on a team member.

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And when I say simply, I don't really

mean simply because it doesn't.

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It's not necessarily that easy, but

the thing might be needing to put more

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systems in place around having touchpoints

for these people so that they feel like

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there are high touchpoints and like

they are getting more individualized

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attention, like they would've been

when you had members equivalent to a a

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$10,000 a month membership or a $15,000

a month membership, but your, your

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member has member count, has drastically.

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Increased, but they're still getting

the same amount of attention.

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In a, in a service model, it might

mean, you know, you might wanna think

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about bringing someone on more for

just like client relations where you

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have someone who's doing a little bit

more of the individual touch points.

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Or like, I know I work with a web

designer that like she thrives on

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having conversations with clients, like

she doesn't wanna give that part up.

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So for her it would maybe make more sense.

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To bring someone on, like bring

on a junior web designer and

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have them start to do more.

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Like maybe she designs the homepage and

sets the parameters for like, this is what

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the feel of the site should look like.

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Maybe builds like some of the

wire framework out for like what

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the other pages are gonna be.

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But then the junior designer.

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Finishes the rest of the site.

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Now that the tone is set and the,

you know, it's, it's more or less an

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established concept and they finish the

rest out and that gives her her time

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back to be able to prioritize client

relationships throughout the process.

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So that's typically, if you were in

a situation where things have started

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to, like, there are le you're getting

less referrals, you are getting less.

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Less retention.

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You have people dropping off and that's

abnormal based on where you're at.

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It could be a sign of the market

or a sign of the industry where

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if you're in an industry where.

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You know, like it's really

tied to the economy.

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Like if you're predominantly serving

low income families or if you're

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predominantly serving single moms

or something like that, where when

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the, in, where the economy goes a

little bit wonky like it is, right?

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Like there are a lot of things up

in the air with the economy right

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now, and it has been that way.

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Like there's a possibility that that

could just be the determining factor.

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But usually there's, you wanna really be.

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Taking a long, hard look in the

mirror to say like, where did I

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potentially drop the ball on something?

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And that's not to, you know, put

blame on yourself or to make you,

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you know, like examine something in

a way that's gonna make you feel bad.

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Like it's just part of the game

of taking, you know, radical

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responsibility for like, what might

this have looked like on my end?

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How could I do this better moving forward?

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Because if you wanna scale, and

like Jordan said, like, I want,

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I want to, Jordan said I wanna

scale fast and I know that I can.

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Okay, well the thing about.

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Scaling fast, and I would direct you

back to episode number one, which was

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like my foundational build versus growth

for scale and like really talking about

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the the things that can happen when

you start to look at growth, whether

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that's growth or like true scale.

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And I would argue at $350,000

a year, you're probably not

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really ready for true scale.

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Like you've got a little

bit further to go.

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But the good news on that.

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And I specifically mean when I say that

like you're really not at a point where

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you're ready to start increasing the

number of members that you are serving and

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or increasing the, the dollar amount that

you are generating revenue every month

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without also increasing your expenses.

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Like you're probably not at that

point yet, which means you're

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not truly ready for true scale.

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You're at a point where you're

probably ready to increase.

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Your membership count and ready to

increase your revenue, but it's gonna

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cost you some money to get there.

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And if it doesn't cost you money,

it's gonna take more of your time.

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But it's probably gonna do both.

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It's probably gonna do both.

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Right.

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But I would also argue that you're

probably not ready for that kind of growth

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because you still have these question

marks around why are people leaving?

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And it's not necessarily a bad thing,

but you do want to have enough of a

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sense of like, why are they leaving?

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Are they leaving because

they've gotten the.

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The complete transformation that they

were looking for, and everything is

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great and wonderful and they're so happy,

but they don't need to keep paying you.

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Like, that's great.

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But then maybe you need to start looking

at like some type of alumni membership

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or expanding your curriculum, or if there

is a curriculum, not all memberships

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have curriculum or expanding the.

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Um, like types of calls that you're

offering, like maybe you're only

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offering calls that they're like,

people are listening to things that

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are, that feel quite fundamental or

quite rudimentary and they're past that.

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So you need to add like a higher

level call or like something that's

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going to get them to stick around

where they're like, this was so great,

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but like, I don't need it anymore.

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You know what I mean?

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So you wanna identify before you're

like, let's scale to the moon.

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I'm ready for fast growth.

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I'm ready for things to go.

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I would actually argue like you're

never gonna be in a perfect scenario

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to really start looking at scale, but

especially if you're wanting to do it

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fast, the real, the reality is, and I'm

just gonna tell you the truth because

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I'm always gonna tell you the truth is

you're probably not ready for it because.

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The true place that I would want you to be

where you're like, all right, let's go is,

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and sometimes you just like, all right,

we're going and you like, that's great.

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And these things happen without

necessarily intending it for it too.

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And when that happens, it happens, but.

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In a more perfect world, I would

rather you be in a place where you're

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like, I understand why people join.

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I understand why people stay.

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I understand what they want.

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I understand what they want.

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After three months, I

understand what they want.

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After six months, I understand

how to keep them engaged.

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Like you have a much better sense

of all their different touch points

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and why they're engaging with

you at different points in their

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journey in the way that they are.

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You know what I mean?

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Like that's a much better

place to grow from.

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That's maybe a little bit idealized.

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That's maybe like a little bit rose

colored glasses on understanding every

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single piece of your membership journey

and your, and your, your client journey

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once they're on the inside of the.

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You know, in once they're on the inside

of of things, but realistically, like

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that's the much better place to be.

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So that's one thing that I

would've preferred to have known,

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but hopefully that gives you

some insight one way or another.

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And then also, like sort of secondarily to

that, how many total members do you serve?

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Um, what is the monthly price point?

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And then I'm assuming that

people are on a cancel any time

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type of membership rather than.

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On a term commitment of some sort.

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So the reason that I mentioned that last

one is I think the other option that

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you might have here is switching at this

point to now having a term commitment.

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Now, when you do that, and this is like

not a good option for some people, so

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this is not, um, this is not a black and

white recommendation, but it's something

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that you could look at and just from like.

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Memory, if memory serves me correctly,

like a little bit of conversation that

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I had with Jordan, I feel like Jordan's

response was like, I do not wanna do that.

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I don't think that would go over well.

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But I think that it's worth mentioning

for other people that when you get

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to the point of having a membership,

especially if you have really phenomenal

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testimonials, and I would say that

it probably is gonna work better

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if you have an engaged community.

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If you are locking people

into a term commitment and you

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have a community that's like.

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Kind of dead people might

feel a little hoodwinked.

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And we don't, that's not the

response that we want people to have.

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We want people to come into something

and be so lit up and excited to be

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there and excited to be there for

the entire term of their commitment.

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So you do wanna be in that place, so, so

if your membership is in a place where

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it's like it's a little bit of a ghost

town on the inside, then having a term

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commitment maybe doesn't make sense.

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Um.

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: 00:14:37

You know, but just food for thought that

like if you do have a relatively engaged

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membership and you've gotten to the

point of 300,000 a year, 400,000 a year,

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500,000 a year, and you don't already

require people to commit to six months, 12

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months, whatever that might be, now might

be the time to start introducing that.

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And you can do like one big

last launch where it's like

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you're gonna be able to do.

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You're gonna be able to cancel any time.

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There's no term commitment.

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And then after this specific

date, it's going to be a six month

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commitment, it's going to be a

12 month commitment or whatever.

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And then you start having to play the,

like the, um, attrition game of are people

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falling off and now you're having to try

and collect payments and things like that.

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But it's something to think about.

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So beyond that, my question would then

go into where are people falling off?

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Because there is a big difference

between them being really excited in

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the beginning and then, and being really

participatory and then wind up falling

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off the planet at some point versus

them never really engaging from day one.

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You know what I mean?

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Um, like if they just really never

show up, that's really different

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than them showing up for a time and

then it fizzles out real quick or

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it fizzles out three months down the

road or whatever that looks like.

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: 00:15:53

So we're gonna come back

to that point in a minute.

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Um, beyond that, do you have an

onboarding sequence and what all

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does that onboarding sequence entail?

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So when you have a membership,

you want a lot of email.

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You need a lot of email with

memberships if you want people to stay.

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So I think that this is also true

if you sell courses, I would argue

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the same thing to a lesser extent.

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Um, if you want people.

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: 00:16:18

You know, to, to buy from you against

what I mean, what I mean when I say to a

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lesser extent is you probably need less

emails than a membership, but you do still

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want some type of onboarding sequence with

a course if you want people to buy from

300

: 00:16:30

you again, because they're probably never

gonna touch your course without reminders.

301

: 00:16:33

And that's kind of a note for me too,

like I've never been great with that.

302

: 00:16:37

But membership emails,

I have a lot of them.

303

: 00:16:40

So my membership.

304

: 00:16:41

Have a three month onboarding sequence.

305

: 00:16:44

The vast majority of it

happens in the first 14 days.

306

: 00:16:48

Um, I wanted to go through, I

wanna tell you my exact sequence.

307

: 00:16:51

So if I'm looking in my sequence for

the collective, so the collective is my

308

: 00:16:55

networking membership, the collective,

um, right after they join, on the day

309

: 00:17:00

that they join, they get a welcome.

310

: 00:17:03

Welcome to the Visionaries

Collective, and it gives them all

311

: 00:17:06

the, the fundamental information.

312

: 00:17:08

The next one day later, they get

reminders, reminds them how to tap

313

: 00:17:12

into the community, reminds them

to engage, reminds them to download

314

: 00:17:16

the the app, because for the

community, we use Mighty Networks.

315

: 00:17:19

It reminds them to download the app.

316

: 00:17:21

It reminds them to fill

out their onboarding form.

317

: 00:17:23

I really want everyone to fill

out their onboarding form.

318

: 00:17:25

I read every last one of them.

319

: 00:17:27

It's how I get information like

their birthday and things like that.

320

: 00:17:30

We're gonna come back to that in a second.

321

: 00:17:32

Um, and then a day later

they get an email that.

322

: 00:17:35

Is that helps set them up for success.

323

: 00:17:38

Like how it helps them understand if

you, I'm assuming you joined for this

324

: 00:17:41

reason and this is how you are going to

be most likely to be able to get that

325

: 00:17:46

outcome that you are actually looking for.

326

: 00:17:48

So that the reason that they

joined can hopefully be met.

327

: 00:17:51

Um, and then two days later they're

going to get an email about.

328

: 00:17:55

Like actually engaging

within the community.

329

: 00:17:57

So this is gonna look really, really

different based on what your thing is,

330

: 00:18:01

but it's going to just remind them.

331

: 00:18:03

It gives them some best practices,

it gives them some tips on how to

332

: 00:18:06

use and engage within the community.

333

: 00:18:08

Two days later, they're going to get a

reminder on, have you done these things?

334

: 00:18:13

Have you already done this?

335

: 00:18:14

Have you already done that?

336

: 00:18:15

Have you attended your first call?

337

: 00:18:17

Have you introduced yourself?

338

: 00:18:18

Have you filled out your onboarding form?

339

: 00:18:19

Et cetera, et cetera.

340

: 00:18:21

It's asking them all of these

questions and then two days after that.

341

: 00:18:25

It's going to check on them.

342

: 00:18:27

It's a very short and sweet check-in

email that it looks like it could

343

: 00:18:32

have been written from my personal

Gmail account, um, because it's so

344

: 00:18:36

short and it's basically just like,

I just wanted to check on you and

345

: 00:18:39

make sure everything's going well.

346

: 00:18:41

Um, do you feel like you have

everything that you need?

347

: 00:18:43

And like, please reply if you don't

like, if you have any questions.

348

: 00:18:47

Anything at all, please do reply.

349

: 00:18:49

And I get so many replies to this email.

350

: 00:18:52

I don't see them all to be totally

honest, because I have, like, I'm not

351

: 00:18:56

monitoring my inbox primarily when

something, when I need to read something.

352

: 00:19:01

My, my person who monitor Nicole,

who monitors my inbox, she moves

353

: 00:19:04

things into a folder for me.

354

: 00:19:06

And that's the only thing that I read.

355

: 00:19:08

Um, but the, I get like, we talk

about things and we, I get so many

356

: 00:19:13

responses to this email and it's.

357

: 00:19:15

Almo, there's been one email

that was really, I, I didn't,

358

: 00:19:20

I, I didn't fully engage with.

359

: 00:19:21

I don't know exactly what happened,

but, and then they, this person

360

: 00:19:25

took it right back where this person

like kind of lit us up on, I'm still

361

: 00:19:29

waiting on a response for this and I'm

still waiting on a response for that

362

: 00:19:31

and I don't feel appreciated at all.

363

: 00:19:33

And.

364

: 00:19:34

Like you want me to tell

you how I'm feeling?

365

: 00:19:36

I don't actually think you do.

366

: 00:19:37

I don't know.

367

: 00:19:37

I'm sort of making it up.

368

: 00:19:38

I don't remember exactly what happened,

but we got one really, really bad

369

: 00:19:41

response, and then like 10 minutes

later, this person was like, oh, just

370

: 00:19:45

I found that you did reply to me.

371

: 00:19:46

Sorry about that.

372

: 00:19:47

I was like, well, all right, whatever.

373

: 00:19:49

As long as they figured it out, I guess.

374

: 00:19:51

Um, but the, like, vast majority of

people have responded to be like,

375

: 00:19:55

we really appreciate all this email.

376

: 00:19:56

Thank you so much for sending all this.

377

: 00:19:58

So if you're afraid of sending a

lot of email, if you're hearing

378

: 00:20:01

this and being like, wow, every

day, every other day you're sending

379

: 00:20:03

more email, that sounds annoying.

380

: 00:20:06

I have found that the vast majority of

PE and people even mention it when they

381

: 00:20:09

come to calls where they're like, thank

you so much for sending so many emails.

382

: 00:20:13

Like, it's so clear and it's

so good to have the reminders.

383

: 00:20:16

And I will just insert here, the re the

reason that I do this beyond retention is,

384

: 00:20:22

well, it, it directly ties into retention.

385

: 00:20:25

Is, um, because you are wanting people to

form a habit, if people don't understand

386

: 00:20:30

how to form a habit within your community,

there's a really good chance that a month

387

: 00:20:33

down the road, they're not gonna just like

magically form that habit outta the sky.

388

: 00:20:37

So we are doing our job by helping them.

389

: 00:20:42

Engage within the community.

390

: 00:20:43

It is, you might think

that like it's their job.

391

: 00:20:47

They joined, they paid

the money, it's their job.

392

: 00:20:49

They should take ownership.

393

: 00:20:50

They're, they're big boys and

girls, they're adults and they

394

: 00:20:54

are self-led people and they

should just be able to like.

395

: 00:20:58

They should do what's on their

heart and mind, and they should

396

: 00:21:01

be self-led, and they should just

take responsibility for themselves.

397

: 00:21:04

I would say that that's a big

cop out because you as the

398

: 00:21:08

business owner, like what?

399

: 00:21:10

It took me a, it took me a minute.

400

: 00:21:12

I think that, well, it actually

didn't take me that long.

401

: 00:21:14

This was a pretty easy

email sequence to write.

402

: 00:21:16

I think it took me a couple hours

to write, you know, like there's.

403

: 00:21:20

A dozen emails in here.

404

: 00:21:21

It took me a couple hours.

405

: 00:21:23

It didn't take me forever, but it was

a little bit of an effort that I had to

406

: 00:21:25

put into it to write all these emails.

407

: 00:21:27

But it's done forever.

408

: 00:21:30

Every once in a while I'm gonna have

to go back in and do this, but these

409

: 00:21:33

emails, I think make a difference.

410

: 00:21:35

The bigger thing that I'm looking at

now, which I'm gonna come back to, is

411

: 00:21:38

like, where do I need to reengage people?

412

: 00:21:41

Because these emails are really good

at getting people to go, oh yeah.

413

: 00:21:46

Oh yeah.

414

: 00:21:46

The, the collective that thing exists,

maybe I wanna go in and go in there and

415

: 00:21:50

check it out, so I'm checking in on them.

416

: 00:21:53

So, okay.

417

: 00:21:53

So that was the check

in on, on them email.

418

: 00:21:55

And then two days later,

I asked them a favor.

419

: 00:21:58

I asked them for a, a quick

initial feedback and like

420

: 00:22:02

it's a shorter feedback form.

421

: 00:22:03

They're gonna get a

longer feedback request.

422

: 00:22:06

Um, a bit later, and so that's great.

423

: 00:22:10

But I send them a shorter feedback

request very early on, and the feedback

424

: 00:22:14

has been so good from it that I'm

actually thinking about switching

425

: 00:22:18

this into a longer feedback form

because I was not expecting to get

426

: 00:22:22

testimonials out of this feedback form.

427

: 00:22:24

It was just genuinely.

428

: 00:22:26

Like, have you, have you

showed up to a call yet?

429

: 00:22:29

If you haven't, what could we do better?

430

: 00:22:31

If you have, like, what

was your experience?

431

: 00:22:33

And I've gotten some, in fact,

that's like a good reminder to

432

: 00:22:35

myself that I need to go back and

send these people emails to ask for.

433

: 00:22:39

'cause I'm not asking permission in this.

434

: 00:22:41

I always ask permission

to use testimonials.

435

: 00:22:44

I didn't even include it on the form

because I just thought, oh, it's

436

: 00:22:47

a really quick feedback request.

437

: 00:22:49

And I just wanna know like, are we going

in the right direction with things?

438

: 00:22:52

Do people feel supported

in the, in the beginning?

439

: 00:22:55

And what I found is like I've gotten full

blown testimonials from people and so I

440

: 00:22:59

wanna go back through and be like, Hey,

can I use that a test as a testimonial?

441

: 00:23:03

Do you mind sending me like

a photo that I can use?

442

: 00:23:05

And do you mind me putting on

the website and the whole thing?

443

: 00:23:07

So because we've gotten such good

feedback from it, and again, that's

444

: 00:23:11

another place where people go

the like the volume of email that

445

: 00:23:14

we've gotten has been so helpful.

446

: 00:23:17

So please don't be afraid of

sending this amount of emails.

447

: 00:23:18

Some people might find it anno

annoying, but I think that's

448

: 00:23:21

gonna be the minority for sure.

449

: 00:23:23

Um, and then, you know, they get,

there's, there are reminders that get

450

: 00:23:26

built in after that around like, it's

been 30 days, it's been 60 days, it's

451

: 00:23:29

been 90 days, um, and so on and so forth.

452

: 00:23:32

Without going into like all that,

but please do steal the format

453

: 00:23:34

for that, from that sequence.

454

: 00:23:36

Like I think that's

pretty, pretty standard.

455

: 00:23:38

So I send a lot of emails.

456

: 00:23:41

Um, and if people in your membership or

your subscription are really not engaging

457

: 00:23:46

to begin with, I would add this asap.

458

: 00:23:49

Like, do not pass.

459

: 00:23:50

Go.

460

: 00:23:50

Do not collect $200.

461

: 00:23:51

Do this tomorrow.

462

: 00:23:52

Do this today.

463

: 00:23:53

The best time to have done this would've

been when you started your membership.

464

: 00:23:56

The next best time, the next best time

to do this would be today or tomorrow.

465

: 00:24:00

You know what I mean?

466

: 00:24:01

Um, and what I would add here is if

you're a coach or a service provider

467

: 00:24:04

or something like that, um, and

probably also if you're e-comm, this

468

: 00:24:07

was the one thing that I wanted to.

469

: 00:24:09

Potentially suggest as like a

lateral tactic that you could use is

470

: 00:24:13

the equivalent to this would be an

offboarding sequence for something

471

: 00:24:17

like what you're doing, something

that's higher ticket, um, be.

472

: 00:24:20

So I would ask you like, how are you

prioritizing intentional offboarding?

473

: 00:24:24

Are you following up

with them for feedback?

474

: 00:24:26

Are you letting them know how

they can work with you again?

475

: 00:24:28

Are you asking them for referrals?

476

: 00:24:30

Do you have a, do you have a natural

path to take them to the next sale?

477

: 00:24:33

Do you have an alumni offer

that you can give to them, et

478

: 00:24:35

cetera, et cetera, et cetera.

479

: 00:24:37

So in the beginning, because when someone,

if you're hiring a coach, you are probably

480

: 00:24:42

going to engage with them right away.

481

: 00:24:43

It's probably not going to be a

situation where you're reminding

482

: 00:24:46

them to show up within a community.

483

: 00:24:48

Although if you have a really large

coaching program that acts more like.

484

: 00:24:52

Um, where there's just a lot of people

and it's not necessarily people getting

485

: 00:24:55

one-off attention, then I would go back

to like add in an onboarding sequence.

486

: 00:25:00

But I would also do an offboarding.

487

: 00:25:01

I would also do an offboarding sequence

if there's like a natural stop date

488

: 00:25:05

for something, just in general, but

with a service provider, if you're

489

: 00:25:09

working with a coach or consultant,

one-on-one or something like that.

490

: 00:25:12

Then you want to have

an offboarding process.

491

: 00:25:16

At the very least, I think offboarding

emails would be helpful, but at the very

492

: 00:25:19

least, an offboarding process so that.

493

: 00:25:22

You can wind up retaining

those people longer or so.

494

: 00:25:25

If you've listened to like the four Bs of

visibility, which I think was episode two.

495

: 00:25:29

It was the episode where I've,

where it was like, I've generated

496

: 00:25:31

millions of dollars online and

I barely used social media.

497

: 00:25:34

It's, I talk about the

four Bs of visibility.

498

: 00:25:36

This is bedazzling.

499

: 00:25:37

It's when people come back

to work with you again.

500

: 00:25:40

Or, and or when they refer

people to work with you.

501

: 00:25:43

And that's what your offboarding

sequence can lead people in DI in the

502

: 00:25:46

direction of, especially if you have

a more structured referral program

503

: 00:25:49

and or a more structured alumni offer.

504

: 00:25:52

So that's that.

505

: 00:25:54

But if people are engaging at first and

then falling off and canceling later,

506

: 00:25:59

I would look at where does this happen?

507

: 00:26:01

And then add in a reengagement

sequence sequence.

508

: 00:26:04

So like I mentioned, this is

something that I plan on doing

509

: 00:26:06

because I can already start to feel

the collective is pretty new, right?

510

: 00:26:11

So, um, and it like had a

big surge of people about.

511

: 00:26:15

A month or two ago, and I'm

starting to feel now that like

512

: 00:26:19

it's becoming less engaged.

513

: 00:26:21

In the beginning everyone was very

engaged, it was popping and I'm starting

514

: 00:26:24

to feel that that is, is starting to fall

off and I feel like in about a month I'm

515

: 00:26:29

gonna have enough data to understand.

516

: 00:26:31

Like really?

517

: 00:26:32

Where is that happening?

518

: 00:26:32

Where do people tend to fall off?

519

: 00:26:34

And then I can start building a

reengagement sequence so that the

520

: 00:26:37

onboarding sequence has, is more

robust around, let's say the 60 day

521

: 00:26:42

mark, or let's say the 45 day mark.

522

: 00:26:44

Like wherever that winds up

being, where people start to fall

523

: 00:26:47

off, I'm gonna reengage them.

524

: 00:26:49

I'm gonna go into their

email and be like, Hey.

525

: 00:26:52

Have you engaged in the community lately?

526

: 00:26:54

This is something that's been on my mind.

527

: 00:26:55

Like I, I probably would go

to more of a personal share.

528

: 00:26:58

Um, something that's a little

bit more vulnerable that like,

529

: 00:27:00

makes them want to come back.

530

: 00:27:02

I don't, I don't know we're gonna

figure that out, but like, I would

531

: 00:27:04

do something around a re-engagement

sequence, but I would also.

532

: 00:27:08

I want you to look at, are

you keeping people engaged?

533

: 00:27:11

Are you scheduling daily posts?

534

: 00:27:13

Are you scheduling time for

yourself to engage within the

535

: 00:27:15

community every single day?

536

: 00:27:17

Uh, and do you do anything

special for your members?

537

: 00:27:19

So like for example, I

mentioned my onboarding form.

538

: 00:27:22

I collect birthdays.

539

: 00:27:23

I also collect their anniversary.

540

: 00:27:25

I also collect what I call

their biz anniversary.

541

: 00:27:27

So the date that they started their

business, and it's all optional.

542

: 00:27:31

I tell them like, if you don't

want me to celebrate anything

543

: 00:27:32

with you, don't give me the dates.

544

: 00:27:34

If you're someone who does not like to

have your birthday acknowledged, because

545

: 00:27:37

I know that there are people who are like

that, then don't tell me your birthday.

546

: 00:27:40

But if you like, I'm,

I love a celebration.

547

: 00:27:43

I'm a huge birthday person.

548

: 00:27:44

I love to celebrate dates.

549

: 00:27:46

So if you give me all of those dates,

like at the top of every month, I

550

: 00:27:51

make a list of Happy Birthday two.

551

: 00:27:53

Happy Anniversary, two Happy

Biz Anniversary two, and um.

552

: 00:27:58

So it's something, it's just a little bit

something extra that helps people feel.

553

: 00:28:02

Appreciated like, but like I said,

the goal is always for people to feel

554

: 00:28:05

seen, heard, appreciated, and valued.

555

: 00:28:08

And so that's just a little bit,

it's just a small thing that can

556

: 00:28:11

hopefully add to that in a small way.

557

: 00:28:15

But I would look at all those things like

if you are having people engage it first

558

: 00:28:18

and then they fall off, I would look more.

559

: 00:28:20

And where have you dropped the ball?

560

: 00:28:22

To be honest, than I would've.

561

: 00:28:24

Why have they fallen off?

562

: 00:28:26

Because it's probably more

you thing than a them thing.

563

: 00:28:29

To be totally honest, like I don't

say that to play the blame game.

564

: 00:28:32

And I'm not saying that to

make you feel badly at all.

565

: 00:28:33

Just usually like you were the

leader of this group, you were

566

: 00:28:37

the leader of your business.

567

: 00:28:38

And usually when things start

to like go a little sideways,

568

: 00:28:42

it starts at the top, right?

569

: 00:28:44

Like, I hate this.

570

: 00:28:45

I don't know why all like icky sayings

have to be about dead animals, but the.

571

: 00:28:52

She, my dog, just like

grunted when I said that.

572

: 00:28:54

I don't, no, I'm not

talking about dead animals.

573

: 00:28:56

I'm sorry.

574

: 00:28:57

Um, it like, why are all, why are, why

are so many sayings like aggressive

575

: 00:29:01

toward animals in such a ridiculous way?

576

: 00:29:04

Side note.

577

: 00:29:05

Um, but like that saying, I hate the

saying like, the fish rots from the head.

578

: 00:29:09

Ugh, ugh, I hate it.

579

: 00:29:11

Um, but the, like, the sentiment of

it does make sense of usually when

580

: 00:29:16

things go sideways, the leader is the

one that you want to look at first.

581

: 00:29:19

So are you, are you engaging as much

as you want people to be engaging it?

582

: 00:29:23

Like, are you doing anything to try, like,

what have you already done to try and fix

583

: 00:29:27

this would be my next question, I guess.

584

: 00:29:29

So memberships ultimately

are a retention game.

585

: 00:29:32

So to answer, answer the question

directly, should you prioritize retention

586

: 00:29:35

or should you prioritize your top of

funnel and just generating more leads?

587

: 00:29:38

I would say retention because

it's, you're just gonna keep, like,

588

: 00:29:44

you're just gonna keep pouring

money into leads, after leads, after

589

: 00:29:46

leads, after leads, after leads.

590

: 00:29:48

When in reality it is much less expensive.

591

: 00:29:52

To retain clients than it is to

acquire new ones or customers.

592

: 00:29:56

Much less expensive to, to retain

customers than it is to acquire new ones.

593

: 00:30:02

So if it's costing you based on the amount

of time that it takes, based on the amount

594

: 00:30:07

of ads spent that you have based on like

Jordan and this example, Jor, I don't

595

: 00:30:10

know if Jordan was spending money on ads.

596

: 00:30:13

Um, but like if it costs you, if it

costs you a hundred dollars to generate.

597

: 00:30:19

A new customer and they

stay in for three months.

598

: 00:30:23

And so let's say that their membership

cost was $70, $75 per month.

599

: 00:30:30

They, it cost a hundred

dollars to acquire them.

600

: 00:30:33

They stay on average three months.

601

: 00:30:35

That means for every a hundred dollars

you spend, you're getting 225 back.

602

: 00:30:39

So you're like, that's not bad.

603

: 00:30:41

You're getting a two x

return on your investment.

604

: 00:30:44

But.

605

: 00:30:45

They, they say, they say Harvard

Business Review did a, did a study,

606

: 00:30:50

um, that said that it costs five

to 25 times as much to retain a

607

: 00:30:54

client than it does to acquire one.

608

: 00:30:56

So if it costs you a hundred on the small

end of that, so five times would be 20.

609

: 00:31:02

Right.

610

: 00:31:03

20 times five.

611

: 00:31:04

Yeah.

612

: 00:31:04

25 times five is, is a hundred to 25 times

less would be on the small and $4, right?

613

: 00:31:10

Four.

614

: 00:31:11

Four times 25 is a hundred.

615

: 00:31:12

So it would cost you, if it costs

five to 25 times less than the

616

: 00:31:16

acquisition cost, that would be

somewhere between four and $20.

617

: 00:31:20

To keep that.

618

: 00:31:21

Let's split the difference and say,

I just cut my thought completely off.

619

: 00:31:24

I do that often, don't I?

620

: 00:31:25

Um, let's just say it was like,

let's just say it was $12.

621

: 00:31:31

To go somewhere in the middle,

$12 to retain them, and they

622

: 00:31:34

stay an additional three months.

623

: 00:31:36

So now you got the initial, like the

initial cost per acquisition was you,

624

: 00:31:42

you earn, you profited $125 off of that.

625

: 00:31:45

But then in the next three months it

cost you $12 to make that 2 25 again.

626

: 00:31:50

So now you profited, uh, a hundred or 213.

627

: 00:31:56

Right.

628

: 00:31:56

Did I do that?

629

: 00:31:57

Yeah, that's the correct.

630

: 00:31:58

I'm doing mental math.

631

: 00:31:59

You, so the profit margin goes sky

high on that, so you might wind up

632

: 00:32:04

slowing down for a minute and not

structuring, like if you listen to the

633

: 00:32:07

first episode, and I talk about scaling

versus skating versus structuring,

634

: 00:32:11

this is restructuring a little bit.

635

: 00:32:12

It might, you might wind up making a

little bit less in the short term and it

636

: 00:32:15

might cost you a little bit more resource

wise to put into this, but it's going to

637

: 00:32:20

make things feel better and work better.

638

: 00:32:22

Um, in the long run, and you don't

always have to slow down or you don't

639

: 00:32:25

always have to like take a step back

from revenue generation to be able

640

: 00:32:29

to do this, but it might happen and

that's just something to be aware of.

641

: 00:32:32

But I think that's a better thing in the

long run because if you come to me and

642

: 00:32:37

say, I'm doing, I'm doing 250 or 300,000

a year, that's still pretty phenomenal.

643

: 00:32:43

I have really, really high retention.

644

: 00:32:45

I have really, really high engagement.

645

: 00:32:46

I'm ready to go with this.

646

: 00:32:48

What makes more sense?

647

: 00:32:49

That's a much better.

648

: 00:32:50

Place to grow from and then

eventually to be able to scale from,

649

: 00:32:56

if you can continue to get those

results, you're just expending more

650

: 00:32:59

of your resources to get there.

651

: 00:33:01

Like that's such a better

place to come from.

652

: 00:33:03

So that's where I would argue

my point on this, I would argue

653

: 00:33:06

for, um, going for retention.

654

: 00:33:08

Because retention, it doesn't

matter what business model you're

655

: 00:33:10

in, retention is always going to

give you a higher profit margin.

656

: 00:33:14

And when you want to start focusing more

on profit margins, like when you really

657

: 00:33:18

start to look at growth and especially

start to look at scale, your profit

658

: 00:33:22

margins are going to start to matter more.

659

: 00:33:23

And the more you start to look if, like,

if you do wanna look at someone acquiring

660

: 00:33:27

your business, eventually, you definitely

wanna be looking at profit margins and

661

: 00:33:31

that's where you like, that's the first

lever to pull is always, always, always

662

: 00:33:35

going to be looking at where can you.

663

: 00:33:37

Increase retention because it's gonna

naturally increase your profit margins

664

: 00:33:40

at the same time in almost every example.

665

: 00:33:43

So hopefully this was helpful.

666

: 00:33:44

If you want me to answer one of your

questions, I would love to on air.

667

: 00:33:47

You can send me a voice note.

668

: 00:33:48

It's linked in the show notes.

669

: 00:33:49

You just hit record in your browser.

670

: 00:33:51

Give me as much context as humanly

possible, like at the beginning of

671

: 00:33:54

this episode where I said the things I

would've liked to have known would've

672

: 00:33:57

been like, how many members do you have?

673

: 00:33:58

What's the cost of your

membership per month?

674

: 00:34:00

Et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.

675

: 00:34:02

Give me as much context for what

you actually have going on as

676

: 00:34:06

possible, even if it's kind of

like a long rambly voice note.

677

: 00:34:08

I would rather have more information

and I will answer your question, give

678

: 00:34:11

you a whole strategy on like, these are

turning into like little master classes

679

: 00:34:15

really, which I kind of love to just sort

of give this information away for free.

680

: 00:34:19

So hopefully this is helpful

for, for you and I would love

681

: 00:34:22

to answer your question next.